Are Catholics Christian? Some Reasons for the Debate.
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A fellow hubber asked why Protestants don't believe that Catholics are Christian. Not trying to offend anyone; but just trying to answer the question. There are some Catholics that have accepted Christ completely, and have become Christians, and no longer worship beads, idols, nor the pope, and then there is the majority which have not.
The bible is specific about idolatry and not putting other gods before the Lord. Also, you might want to check out this link which will speak about some gods, particularly female ones, all which are the same entity, and all which have different names in different parts of the world, but all which fall under Baal worship; this includes the Catholic church.
I realize that a message of unity is being pushed by TBN and other religious and political groups, and I'm not trying to cause a divide, but simply answer the question. I'm all for unity if God is the only God being worshiped, and if He is worshiped in spirit and in truth, but that is not the case with many of these entities and groups that push a world religious system. Whether you agree or disagree, you cannot mix darkness and light any more than you can serve two masters.
This information and/or the section just before it in that link, may also tell you the origins of the Catholic church, which may help you to understand why a distinction has been made between Catholics and Christians.
If you know the true history of the Catholic church, you would know that these were some of the ones spoken of in scripture where it is said that some would kill in Christ's name. That happened during the reformation, and will reoccur in the end times.This is why any of their priests that want to escape and leave the Catholic church fear for their lives, because if they were to talk, they'd be killed. I've read stories of priests that escaped from there, and were hunted by Jesuits to silence them. It still happens, it's just not talked about.
In most Catholic churches, you will find either on the wall, or the floor, a large sun disk, or sun dial. That is the symbol for the god Baal, also known in Egypt as Ra and by several other names.
I think if more people knew a bit more about some of the history, they'd understand more. Most people don't know that Islam developed with the help of the Catholic church. Most don't know about the Jesuit priests who were from the Catholic church and were assassins, and still exist today in a group called the Illuminati.
Like I said, not trying to offend, just answering the question. Do some research if you are put off by what I'm saying. I've found scriptural evidence, but don't just take my word for it. Study for yourselves. Do some online digging and don't just rely on the word of any man ( or woman in this case), like your priest or someone else in your church if you are Catholic. They won't tell you that information. You will have to search it out for yourself.
There is a difference, else why would Catholics have a different bible? The same is true with Jehovah's Witnesses. They too want to associate themselves as being Christian, but their bible is different because their originator changed the scriptures to read the way he wanted; and to state that Jesus was just a prophet, and not the Son of God. That is not the true message of Christianity, which follows the teachings of "Jesus Christ." I am non denominational, but my bible does not tell me to worship saints, or idol statues of saints. I don't pray to anyone, but God, and there is no go between that I have to confess my sins to.
It was Jezebel, Ahaz's Phoenician wife, that set up the system of confessional to priests that she controlled, and this system gave way to Catholicism. Even in the original Judaism, there was always a veil, and priests that one had to deal with to communicate with God, but when Christ died, the veil was rent, and there was no longer any go-between or barrier of any sort between God and man.
Therefore, the pope is unnecessary, and certainly not anyone to be highly esteemed or respected, because the bible states that God is not a respecter of persons. The pope is not God, nor is he God's representation on earth - that person was Jesus Christ, and there is no other.
Please understand. I'm not hatin' on Catholics. I just don't believe we serve the same God that scripture is written about. I also don't think that most Catholics have researched what they claim to believe, which is not surprising, considering that many Christians also don't really study for themselves, but simply sit under a preacher and wait to be taught.
Some people have come here and argued with me in the comments, claiming they've done their research. Ok. So then you've made your choice. I am simply answering a question posed in the forum from a Christian perspective. Personally, I want to be sure of what I believe, and why I believe it, so I research what I believe.
Sandra M Urquhart
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- Dream Journal – Day 1 The Spirit World and Your Destiny Part 5
See?
- When Children Dream Part 3
It started a about 5 or 6 years old, but I'm sure I was 5.
- Update 3.22.12
Hi Everyone, I know that several of you have been coming in looking for the next update on the blog.
- Dream Journal – Day 1 - The Spirit World and Your Destiny Part 6
14.
- Dream Journal – Day 1 The Spirit World and Your Destiny Part 5
See?
- Dream Journal – Day 1 - The Spirit World and Your Destiny Part 4
The thing is God knew that this would happen and prepared a future for us in advance of this disaster Adam and Eve created.
- Dream Journal – Day 1 - The Spirit World and Your Destiny Part 3
Perry goes on to talk about why the spirit world is veiled.
- Dream Journal – Day 1 - The Spirit World and Your Destiny Part 2
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
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Thanks for the comment. You actually gave me some things to think about too. As to reading more, that's why I put the link up there. It is to my main bible study site where I post my studies, but that particular page is the start of the part of the study on Asherah.
However, if you click the link that just says Heshewethree, it will take you to the main page and you can click on Studies and Posts and you will find the links to all the studies I've done. The link that says "The Book of Isaiah" is a separate page that shows all the links of the studies I've done on that book, which I'm still on chpt 1.
Feel free to comment there as well, because I always appreciate constructive remarks/comments and particularly from someone that is apparently informed and well read. Peace and blessings.
You speak of things that you do not understand and some of the things you write (such as the sun dial) can easily be disproved by just entering a Catholic Church.
But let's take your assumptions at face value. It seems that Augustine wasn't Christian either:
http://www.willcoxson.net/faith/augprot.htm
If you read writings of St. Ignatius and other disciples who sat at the feet of the apostles, you see the Catholic Church. If you look at the Ethopian and Coptic Church, which broke away from the Catholic Church after the council of Nicea (so they have no Romish tendencies) you see an ancient church that is much closer to Catholicism than Protestantism.
You can't find a single writing of anyone before the first millenium that has any resemblance to Protestantism or the 5 solas....except for some Gnostics who were essentially Church of Oprah "Christians" that believe that Jesus was just another incarnation of Buddha. St. Paul has some very strong words againsts the Gnostics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism_and_the_Ne
The only way Catholicism can be non-Christian is if the Church totally fell apart after St John died. But if that's the case, Christianity is lost since the earliest copy of the Bible which we have access to was compiled centuries later by the very Catholics you call non-Christian. If the Church fell apart, then there is no motivation for Church to preserve the original Bible without modification and every motivation for tampering. If Catholicism isn't Christianity, the Bible is gone. All that's left is Judiasm and some corrupted Gospels.
But would it surprise you to find out that all the reformers, including Calvin had a high view of Mary and had devotions to her? See for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin%27s_views
They also used the King_James_Bible version of the Bible which included the same books at the Catholics did:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Bible#Apoc
It wasn't until a century later that Protestants changed the canon of scripture for practical reasons (loss of funds) and ideological reasons (since the Church must be corrupt, let's just stick with what Modern Judiasim has preserved), even though the New Testament quotes the "Apocrypha" (i.e. Septuagint):
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/septuagint.html
So by rejecting the the "Apocrypha", Protestants reject the authority of the apostles themselves.
Before speaking, please do some actual research rather than spreading hearsay.
Abel,
Apparently, you are offended, and I'm sorry that you are, because it was not my intent, clearly, as I stated it several times. My intent was to get people to examine what they believe, to check things out for themselves, as opposed to simply believing what some man in a robe may have told them all their lives.
As far as the "saints" you mentioned, Augustine and Ignatius...I don't recognize them as they are not in scripture.
As to the sun dial in Catholic churches, it may not be present in all, but I have seen it with my own eyes. It's usually in the window glass or in the tiles on the floors. It is also in the images...always behind the head of the alleged saint and even portrayed behind the head of Jesus as well.
Btw, I don't particularly take information in wikkipedia as gospel as I'm aware that people contribute to it, and who knows who those contributors are, or what their motivations may be. It's not a source of any specific reliability or expertise on any given subjects.
Also, I noted that you attempt to argue your point to me, using references to Catholic ideology and jargon. That's fine, but I don't seek and read the writing of institutions or individuals that have deviated from scripture, so I'm not likely to look into that.
I'm well aware that your Catholic church may teach you what you spewed at me, and that's fine. You have the right to believe as you choose. I simply answered a question and attempted to do it without offense as much as possible, however, I am nothing if not direct, and I say that as a preface to my next statement.
As to the matter of my doing research prior to speaking; I have done research...right in the scriptures themselves, and I have seen evidence of what I speak, so that is the authority by which I say what I'm saying. Again, you have the right to choose to believe as you will. I'm not shoving anything down anyone's throat, so you don't have to agree with me. However, perhaps if you spent less time being offended, and more time checking things out instead of simply falling back on programming, you might see the truth and be set free. Peace and blessings.
Wow, you have both done research but it is tainted with what you want to believe. Why must you be right? You are both right. You are both shoving stuff down each other's throats. It is naive to consider that others have not examined their faiths. They don't need this hub to do it. There are as many forms of worshiping God as there are people- after all, we are made in the image of God and have part of God inside us. I think you should reread what you wrote and apply it to yourselves. This is the way God speaks to us- one finger pointing outward and four plus a thumb pointing back at us. I take my words to heart.
"In most Catholic churches, you will find either on the wall, or the floor, a large sun disk, or sun dial. That is the symbol for the god Baal, also known in Egypt as Ra and by several other names."
At first when I read this, the hub lost any credability it had. Then I read this comment:
"As to the sun dial in Catholic churches, it may not be present in all, but I have seen it with my own eyes. It's usually in the window glass or in the tiles on the floors. It is also in the images...always behind the head of the alleged saint and even portrayed behind the head of Jesus as well."
That's when I realized you mostly just didn't understand what you were talking about. from what I can discern, that "sundial" is also called a "halo", a symbol that denotes holiness and unity with God. Other than that, i'm not sure what you're referring to...
Anyway, you're writing style is decent, and you pose a valid question... I just wish you had done some more research yourself. When its all said and done just keep in mind, Catholics worship Christ, who is the center of Christianity.... does it really matter all that much if people do it in different ways?
Peace.
Storytellersrus, I'm am only looking at the debate, as I saw a question on the matter, and answering according to the knowledge I have. I spoke from a position of that knowledge gained by biblical research I have done myself. No one told me this. I gained my perspective based on what I saw in scripture. I don't claim to be an expert. I am only one person who attempts to do what scripture says, and study to show myself approved. As you say, I could be wrong, but from what I've seen and read about, I don't think I am. I am nondenominational, so its not a specific denomination's teaching that I refer to in my statements; only the truth as I know via personal study of scriptures. Thanks for the visit and comment.
rdlang05, while I appreciate your perspective, I did realize in writing this, that people from that background would more than likely use teachings or ideology from that church to dispute what I said. Its fine. You don't have to agree with me. Like I said, the question was posted and I simply answered it in a post myself.
As to does it matter if people do it in different ways; according to most people in the world, no, it doesn't. Depending on who you are worshiping, maybe not. However, Christ was pretty specific about the authority by which He spoke, and one would tend to think that an authority, any authority, would state of dictate how things under that authority should be run, otherwise, what is the purpose of having an authority at all? So in my perspective, it is clear that there is a difference in the "how" it is done, because God is the ultimate authority, and He does have not only an opinion on the matter, but set law on how things are to be done.
Thanks for the compliment on my writing style and thanks for the visit. Come back any time.
Let me say this, 1st as a Catholic I pray to The Lord Jesus Christ, I do not pray to the pope . In fact anybody that say's Catholics pray to anybody else simply is badly mistaken. The Catholic Church goes back to St Peter and is the oldest Christian Church, all other Christian Church's broke away from the Catholic Church.
I must state as a Cathoilc I worship Jesus Christ and no other. It is that simple.
I know there's a lot of history of the Catholic Church, but as to being the oldest Christian church, I would disagree. Paul did not start a Catholic church. Nor did he initiate the papal system of confession that Catholic churches have. That system was initiated by Jezebel in the old testament.
As to other churches breaking away from them, I tend to think that it was due to violations of the doctrines and principles that Paul first established; due to the fact that any institution or person that is killing in the name of Christ, is not of Him. Scripture says that, and it is well documented that the Catholic church did this as part of some reformation.
Nevertheless, if you believe in Christ, and don't worship or pray to any of the saints (statues) or the beads, then perhaps you are Christian. Only God knows your heart, and only He can judge. Peace and blessings.
He said Peter, not Paul. And what he said is true. Peter was the first Pope.
It wasn't the Peter I read about in scripture. That Peter was never a pope.
Disappearinghead Level 3 Commenter 24 months ago
I like the hub, but would like to read more.
It would come as no suprise to me that paganism has infiltrated and influenced the Catholic church. The church was established in pagan Rome, and to smooth transition to a monotheistic faith with reduced culture shock for the population, it made sense to them to absorb pagan customs and festivals, such as Christmas and Easter.
I understand that much of Roman and Greek mythology was borrowed from Egypt, so it would be no suprise either that Egyptian symbology found its way into the church too.
One of the main ideas used to control population was the adoption of the Greek/Roman/Egyptian Hell immediatetly following death. All the Catholic immagery of Hell is directly found in mythology and not found anywhere in scripture. It is so unfortunate that the New Testament writers took the Greek word Hades instead of the Jewish Sheol, because Hades and Sheol bear absolutley no resemblance to each other. Usin g the Greek term, enforced their doctrines.
Scripture tells us about the Whore of Babylon and I've no doubt that this is direct reference to the church. However, I think not just the Catholic church, but the church of all denominations in general where their teachings and practices do not follow those of Christ. Those who follow Christ are called to come out of the compromising church.